TRANSCRIPT:
Paul Edelstein:
Hello, welcome to Pulling Back the Legal Curtain. I am your host Paul Edelstein. I’ll have my partner Glenn Faegenburg with me most of the time. And this podcast is for all of you out there who have ever read about a court case, seen a court case, been involved in a court case, went to court, thought about court, and wondered, “What the hell is going on in courts?” It seems like every day we have these kind of questions and get asked them. So on this podcast, we will pull back the curtain on the mystery that sometimes surrounds the court and what happens there, and hopefully give you some answers, some interesting, some humorous, some surprising. Stick with us on Pulling Back the Legal Curtain.” All right, we’re back here with Judge Charles Thomas. Now retired, but maybe he should be unretired. I think they should really recruit you, get you back.
Charles Thomas:
As a matter of fact, they have re-instituted the JHO program starting back in January, and I have put in an application for it and I may or may not do it if they accept me. We’ll see how I feel.
Paul Edelstein:
Just so people know if they’re listening. JHO is a judicial hearing officer, right?
Charles Thomas:
Right.
Paul Edelstein:
So you’re not officially the judge, but for all intents and purposes, you are.
Charles Thomas:
You can do a lot of things with the JHO.
Paul Edelstein:
I like it. I hope they bring you back. They should. But I want to ask you a different question.
Charles Thomas:
Sure.
Paul Edelstein:
Something little bit more … Well, we’ve been a little personal today, you and I, you know?
Charles Thomas:
Yeah.
Paul Edelstein:
But you know that I’m the son of a lawyer, grandson of a lawyer, and you are the father of two trial lawyers. Two actually really prominent trial attorneys. What was that like? You being on the bench, having two sons practicing sometimes in your court? Not really in front of you. They’re both civil trial lawyers like me, so they wouldn’t really be in your part, but what was that like?
Charles Thomas:
Well, let’s see. When they went to law school and they’d come home with questions, I would hide because I didn’t know the answer to those questions. I’d try to avoid them. I’m just delighted and flattered that they’re doing so well, and as far as I’m concerned, being a lawyer is the best job in the world. You go until you drop. You can’t be fired, especially if you work for yourself. And I’m very proud of them and I’m delighted. And I would say, in all honesty, they are probably a lot better lawyers than I ever was.
My kids spend all day in court. They’re in front of it. They know every judge in the county, just about. One of them took about 400 verdicts so far. In fact, this week he took three verdicts. Three verdicts. Most lawyers don’t take three verdicts in a year. They’re out there working and I’m very proud of them.
Paul Edelstein:
Yeah, there’s no question, but reeling back, what influence did you exert for them to go to law school? How much, if any?
Charles Thomas:
Well, with one, there was no question he was going to go. There were two, they’re twins, as you know. One of them was going to go, no question about it. He liked the idea. The other one was going to become a doctor. He went to college. Organic chemistry did him in, and the instructors were not English speakers, so to speak. He had people that had different … He had difficulty understanding it. He didn’t like it and he graduates …
He had a history degree, poly … Whatever he had. I said, “What’s he going to do? Look, go to law school.” He said, “No, I don’t want to go to law school.” I don’t care what you do in this world. I don’t care … You can shovel manure for all I care, but just get a law degree and then you can do anything you want. It turns out he took to it beautifully. He got a job with a law firm after … Through a recommendation, and he was hired on a Tuesday, and then he got a call, “Come into the office on Thursday, pick up the file, and you’re trying a case on Monday.” Trying a case, he doesn’t even know where the courtroom is, in his life. He said to his employer, “I don’t know what’s going on.” He says, “Hey, you’re a son of a judge. You can do it.” Yeah, he was right. He was right.
Paul Edelstein:
Was that Peter or Dan?
Charles Thomas:
That was Peter.
Paul Edelstein:
Wow. Boy, that makes a lot of sense now, doesn’t it?
Charles Thomas:
Yeah. Yeah.
Paul Edelstein:
Because Peter is one of the few lawyers that exists that could probably be in that situation today. In other words, well, he certainly knows what he’s doing now. He wasn’t, first day lawyer, but here’s a rare lawyer that could actually be handed a file, which sometimes happens without much notice and can handle it. You think that came from you?
Charles Thomas:
No, it actually came from him. He was always out there as an entertainer when he was in school. He was working for a guy who did events … Step up and light a candle after the bar mitzvah, that kind of stuff, and it’s all over. He’s an actor. And by the way, he had a trial on that Monday morning in front of one of the toughest judges in the county, the late judge Arthur Lunshine, and they got along beautifully. It’s worked out, especially for him. The other guy, who you happen to know, Daniel, he took to it right away.
I recommended that he go, I said, “Get a good specialty, but I would practice law.” I took whatever came in the door, which is okay, but I would’ve been better off just focusing on the one thing, something like medical malpractice. And he got an internship at a medical mal firm, a very prestigious medical mal firm, and he stayed on. They offered him a job and blah, blah, blah, blah. The next thing you know, he’s into it, been 20 some odd years, 25 years. I don’t even know. Whenever they graduated. About 20, 25 years.
Paul Edelstein:
I think it’s more. I think you’re off by a couple. The first time …
Charles Thomas:
I could be.
Paul Edelstein:
And I think you’re wrong.
Charles Thomas:
Okay. All right. Anyway, that’s the … One guy, yes, then one guy I had to push and they both succeeded very well, thankfully for that.
Paul Edelstein:
Well, how much of you do you see in them? In other words, the skills that you have and the things that you connect with, do you see in your sons.
Charles Thomas:
Skill wise, I see a little bit of me in both of them, but not to the extent that they’re emulating my style. I don’t think they are. I can’t say I see that much … No, not really. They’re individuals. They’re not the same. They’re not carbon copies of each other either. They’re different personalities. As an example, when I asked Peter what time it is, he’ll look at his watch. When I asked Daniel what time it is, he’ll tell you how to make a watch. That’s the difference.
Paul Edelstein:
Oh my gosh. That’s funny. Interesting questions though. Another interesting question for me … By the way. I know both of your sons incredibly well. They both happen to be very dear friends of mine and I’ve worked really closely with both of them over a long period of time and rely on both of them. How much do you think it affects them to know, like when they’re in court every day, that their father was such a well-regarded judge for so long?
Charles Thomas:
I hope they’re proud of it. I think that my influence … I couldn’t pass the business on to them. I don’t have a business, but I could pass an attitude and I could pass an idea. I could pass on the whole concept. And I think I’ve done that and I think they’re thriving as the result.
Paul Edelstein:
There’s no question.
Charles Thomas:
Yeah.
Paul Edelstein:
So now I grew up the son of a lawyer. With some similarities, maybe, as your kids growing up in your house. So I know what my dinner table was like when I was in high school and college. Being there with a lawyer who, you know, you aren’t really going to get away with certain answers with my father, if you know what I mean. So what was your dinner table like?
Charles Thomas:
Well, I tried to avoid being embarrassed by the law questions so I tried not to go too deep in it. I was there to help them. I gave them, I think, the best tip anybody could ever give a law student. And if anybody is a law student, I’ll pass it on. Get PJI.
Paul Edelstein:
The patterned jury instructors, you’re saying? Yeah, but you know what, now you’re talking about when your kids were really getting in law school or becoming lawyer, but how about when they were in high school? Because that’s a pretty formative age. When I was in high school, my dinner table, sitting there with a lawyer and I knew he was a big character. That had to be the way your kids viewed you at the dinner table in high school. What was that like?
Charles Thomas:
A dim memory.
Paul Edelstein:
Maybe not for them.
Charles Thomas:
Yeah. Well, I’m sure they could give you the answer, but I really can’t. We had dinner every night. That was one thing I really liked about being a judge. I came home, we had dinner every night together. No TV in front of you, that type of thing. It wasn’t like, “Let’s go out for pizza,” my wife was cooking every night. It was wonderful. They had a wonderful upbringing, in terms … I’m saying that. I think it was wonderful. It was wonderful for me, and I looked back with real affection, but I can’t tell you, “Well, I did this and I said that and they said this.” We had good interaction and don’t forget my daughter is involved in the whole thing too. The star of my show is my daughter.
Paul Edelstein:
Yeah, I know your daughter as well. So why didn’t she go into the law? Smart, maybe, right?
Charles Thomas:
No, she was … Actually, no, that’s not true. I got her a job. She was a paralegal. She was doing very, very well in an immigration firm. She didn’t want to go to law school, but she was doing well. She speaks fluent French, and so she got an opportunity … Somebody mentioned get involved in the modeling business as an agent, and that’s what she did, and that’s what she’s been doing all these years. No, she was good, but she didn’t want to stick with the law. She was very good as a … What’s the word I’m looking for?
Paul Edelstein:
I guess, a paralegal, but she didn’t stick in that …
Charles Thomas:
Paralegal. There you go. That’s the word. Yeah, she was good. She knew her stuff, but she didn’t want to stick with it. She did it for about two or three years and then she had an opportunity to go to France and run a modeling agency in France. I would’ve taken that job myself if I had that opportunity. She lived there …
Paul Edelstein:
You couldn’t have been a model? I think you could be a judge model. I think, if there were judge models, yeah, I think that you’d be the guy. When I think of a judge and we always joke like, “Oh, if you looked up judge of the dictionary, this is what you’d find.” We think we’d find you.
Charles Thomas:
That’s very flattering. What’s the next question?
Paul Edelstein:
That’s so you. You know what? One more question for you and then I’m going to let you go.
Charles Thomas:
I’m not leaving.
Paul Edelstein:
But I got a judge that wants to talk to me in about …
Charles Thomas:
All right, there you go.
Paul Edelstein:
You’re more fun. But let me ask, going back on your judicial career, if you could go back and change one thing and say, “You know what, I wish I could have done, been able to do this or done this differently,” what would you do? I stumped you.
Charles Thomas:
You stumped me, because there wasn’t anything that I didn’t like to do. I don’t think I’d change anything. I really wouldn’t. I was delighted to get in that guardianship part because that became a very important part and also gave me independence, because the powers that be didn’t really know what was going on in that part. So I was in complete control and I wouldn’t change anything really. I was lucky. Everything sort of fell in place. Maybe if I go home and think about it and I’ll find something which bothered me, but I can’t think of anything that I would change. I really mean it. I have no complaints. They treated me well.
Paul Edelstein:
That’s great, judge. And you know what I got to tell you, you’ve said it all day long about how lucky you were, but I got to tell you something, you really weren’t the lucky one. The lucky one, were the hundreds, maybe thousands and thousands of people that came in front of you. Lawyers, litigants, law guardians, incapacitated people, everybody. And because I’ve been doing this a long time now and I come from a family of lawyers, so to know that there are guys like you out there that believe so deeply in what you are doing and what you did and are so passionate about it and go about it in such a respectable manner, that is what makes the field worthwhile.
My father and my grandfather taught me that what we do, we, meaning you and me, was we’re all in the same field, is a noble profession. And I think it takes a lot of hits and has black eyes at times, but it shouldn’t. And it’s guys like you, or judges like you, and I’m a little too friendly with you these days, but judges like you that really give it the respect that it deserves. So I really … Let me say thank you and I appreciate it for everybody and for coming and talking to me.
Charles Thomas:
Well, thank you. That’s very kind words. I appreciate it. It’s nice to be recognized. Have you done your father?
Paul Edelstein:
Yeah. Well, yeah. Not quite like this, but I have and I’ll do it again. I’ll tell him, you gave me a directive.
Charles Thomas:
Your father has great stories. Has great stories. He’s a real storyteller.
Paul Edelstein:
Well, I’m glad I got a chance to get some of yours. If I want tap into more of them, will I have permission to do so?
Charles Thomas:
Okay. Anyways, a pleasure to talk to you and thank you so much for interviewing me. It was fun. Thank you.
Paul Edelstein:
For me. Thanks, Judge.
Charles Thomas:
Okay, bye-Bye.
Paul Edelstein:
Thanks for joining us on Pulling Back the Legal Curtain with Paul and Glenn. Because we get so many questions over so many years about what goes on behind the legal curtain in the legal world, we tried to put this together so that it would be entertaining and interesting and hopefully educational. If you liked it, come join us again or visit our website at edelsteinslaw.com. Either way, we’re always going to be here, in front of and behind the legal curtain doing the only thing that we know how to do, which is proceed. Take care.
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